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The Jimmy Skid Rig M11/M12, WI5, 200m and some

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  • #16
    I think the point is becoming clear. In your desparation to become famous, you are missing the point. In Western Canada you are surrounded by many strong, bold climbers, that acheive great routes in good style. Many do not write about it simply because they do it for their own reasons/satisfaction. Others are community minded or sponsored (for good reason) and document for these reasons.

    Canadian climbers are usually known for being understated.

    The consistent billboards and flyers from airplanes about moderate stuff is getting moldy. To spray to Alpinist about routes my girlfriend did years ago in less than half your time, as an important Canadian summer update.

    No dis to WG he sent a hard route and got the FA. Rest up you simply bolted it.


    • #17
      Yikes, Im glad everyone is getting it off there chest, anyone else?? I love a good dose of negative blasting from the guards.

      "The consistent billboards and flyers from airplanes about moderate stuff is getting moldy. To spray to Alpinist about routes my girlfriend did years ago in less than half your time, as an important Canadian summer update" I agree!

      Your girlfriend is a fast climber by the way! Have you been to the route? Most of the climbers in this vally climb harder then me off the couch! Im not bragging about my climbing ability, more spraying about a route that hadnt been climbed yet (dont know why!) in the non professional, punter style we did it in!

      Andrew, I appreciate your feedback, its truly inspiring!

      PS: I didnt do any sparying! I posted it on this site.. I never wrote a blog (Mienen and Gadd did) or send this to the mags, they found it themselves!!

      Infamous Brandon


      • #18
        GADD - NICE WORK! - this should not get lost in the typical crap that often revolves around climbers and true ascents.

        I am sure it could use a 2nd ascent and i see that all the M10+ climbers are running into the Pigeon drainage ... i hear Gery's keen ...


        • #19
          Is this stuff great entertainment or what? My wife asked me if it's only in the sport of climbing that this sort of thing goes on. That got me thinking maybe it is.

          As for the "infamous Brandon"...I gotta give him credit for his great counterpunching in all of this. He's definitely holding his own inspite of some pretty heavy hitters having a go at him.


          • #20
            This really is some great entertainment, it beats climbing Professors and eating dropped cookies. Keep up all the great work guys and gals, this debate's sure to get much, much hotter!


            • #21
              I can't believe I'm going to throw my 2 cents in on this, but here goes, the short and sweet of it.

              A FA. A FA involves a group of people climbing a route. A FSA involves a solo effort. Some of you incorrectly confuse a FSA as a FA. The truth is Gadd did this route with Pullam and Mienen. Gadd didn't solo it. I guess he could have but it would have involved a tremendous solo effort on his part. He did this route with 2 others and they all deserve the FA. Gadd would probably aggree. Leave it alone already. This was a great TEAM EFFORT!!
              Brian Merry[br]Banff, AB[br][br][br]403-763-1114[br]


              • #22

                An F.A. is a free ascent of a route - could be solo, could be that the whole team freed the route, but a route gets the FA when it gets freed.

                So as for TJSR, if only Gadd freed the whole thing - he gets the FA, it does not mean he soloed it - yes someone held his rope, but that's the deal. If the rest of the team even followed all pitches without falls, freeing the route - swapping leads, then that'd be the way to add the FA to the whole team. Often flip-flop/leap-frog leads are the norm for these large scale multi pitch rigs.

                FSA has rarely been used. Maybe the FNA (first naked ascent).

                As for leaving it alone - my goodness man! All of them have spewed it all over the media - that's what you get. The reason folks are not digging at Gadd is because he's got more than the skills.

                The rest of the team admitted they do not have the skills to climb the mixed sections, so it's kind of difficult for "climbers" to let it go.

                No one disses the Walsh/Simms ascent of W.Thing, as both have the skills required to send the route and work together - no falls - to claim the ascent.

                BTW - no way would Gadd solo the route - M11! are you kidding, you know how hard that is (yes he can climb M13)? one missed seq. and he's out of there - aside from that - it's on rockies frozen stone that often ejects without warning. soloing sport mixed pitches is pretty darn silly - Russian Roulette would be far safer.

                How many ascents has Everest really had - you know without oxygen and in a small "alpine-style" format?

                We'll all agree with your comment "shut-up and climb" but how fun would that be? it's be like saying to George W. Bush - all right all on you - we'll all stay out of the game ...


                • #23
                  All this is so entertaining! ...and I bet the First Ascentionist(s?) (whatever that means) and their sponsor(s?) are loving the attention; this is exactly what they wanted and we are giving it to them by the truckload!! ooops. I suppose that only matters if we know or care who the sponsors are (which I don't).

                  Anyway, congrats to whoever out there has or does free this route!


                  • #24
                    Fully! - we should really in all of this crap - thank the B&W team for building and energizing the route in Pigeon drainage that's going by the name of TJSR. It's kind of like a cage-match in the end you should shake hands and thank all for the efforts.


                    • #25

                      Honestly, over the years I've never heard FA stand for first free ascent (FFA). What you explain is what I would call a red point or an onsight. I've always heard FA used as an abreviation for first ascent. That's how I've used it over the years and pretty much everyone I know has used it that way too. That is definately how FA is used in terms of the first ascent of Everest. When an aid route gets put up and later freed, the party that put it up still keeps the FA and the party that later frees it gets the FFA. That's established terminology.

                      OK, you're right that FSA may be a stretch but another way to say the same thing is to only put one name after FA. I've done that before to describe a first ascent done solo.

                      Is FA used in your context restricted to shorter sport climbing routes? That may be where the confusion lies. If it is I think FA would mean first ascent in this case due to the multi-discipline alpine nature of the climb.

                      I aggree with you on the your point on soloing M11/M12. But it was a valid way to illustrated my point which was to say this was a team effort.

                      My concern here is that I think Pullan and Mienen deserve to be listed after Gadd in the FA and not flamed. They did more than just hold the other end of the rope and jug the lines in order for TJSR to become a reality. I seem to remember hearing somewhere that Mienen only had problems with the M11/M12 pitch too. I might be recalling that incorrectly.

                      I also appreciate the original posting about TJSR by Brandon. We all know what can happen if a route gets put up and no one tells anyone (TDOP).

                      Discusion is good. That how terminology and ethics evolve.

                      BTW, my signiture "shut up and climb" is meant as a tongue and cheek way to have fun and keep life focused in the right direction. I don't mean to offend. I mean to humour.

                      With respect,
                      Brian Merry[br]Banff, AB[br][br][br]403-763-1114[br]


                      • #26
                        I just can?t resist replying to this thread, it is just too much crap all in one long line for me not to say something.

                        First, a person has a right to make a living. Second, if this is enhanced by ?spraying? (what a terrible term), then they can do that. Especially in a forum such as this. Thirdly, a person can comment on such ?spraying? if they choose. Although the reasons one may comment can be quite shallow in that of themselves, often not having anything to do with the complaints. That is what makes this thread so interesting.

                        Here we have a bunch of people commenting, not because the route is crap, but because they ?feel? that there was inappropriate credit taken. I do not see where in the original post that either Will or Brandon took exceptional credit for completing this route. Maybe I missed it, but they appear to give almost all the credit to Will. Maybe Will should have posted this and there would have never been this argument? Seems like you are all scared of him and what he might say anyway?

                        Sure appears that Will appreciated both Will and Brandon?s efforts, all of which enjoyed a great climbing experience. Why don?t you all just let Will decide if they deserve to be on the credits list (FA description), and then shut up. Seems like he should have the best perspective on this, and probably has enough experience in these matters to make the call.



                        • #27
                          I think Brandon and Will should be on the FA and FFA list as they did most of the work, pretty much what Brian said. I put in three days of work, I think they did something like 25? I sent the rig with Brandon on the FFA, that would not have happened without his effort and Will M's effort. Routes are a team creation really, I've always felt the credit should go not just to the first person to free the route but also to everyone who helped create the route. There are some lengthy entries in the FA section of Sean's guide where I listed pretty much everyone who was at the crag with me the day of an FA just 'cause they were part of the scene that created the route and the fun of it all--I once got a funny email from a sponsor giving me shit for doing so, but he was missing the point that new routes are done with friends or they aren't done at all. In any case this is a good route, and yeah JD, a cage match with a handshake is a good description of the spray-counter-spray discussion. Ya gotta admit that all the words here on this site add up to substantially more words than the spray the route engendered...

                          I would like to add some detail to the route description from Brandon--if nothing else it's important to say what you did with full clarity:

                          You can do P1 and P2 together with two 60 M ropes, clip the first pitch on one rope and the second on the other. You'll need two ropes to rap this rig for sure anyhow, speeds the process up to do the two pitches together.

                          You could also do P4 and P5 as one pitch if you're careful about rope drag; doing so wouldn't change the grade as you get a solid no-hands rest where the belay currently is. I can't remember if I did that on the FFA or not, Brandon has a good memory and can likely shed some light on that. I'd probably call P5 M7, in keeping the Rockies tradition of using the lowest grade you can say with a straight face.

                          I climbed "P6 and P7" together as one pitch, and the grade reflects that. If you were to belay at the an "old" station before getting on the ice it would make things a lot easier, it's an enduro pitch. There isn't a no-hands rest at the old belay station there, it doesn't make sense to belay there. A 60M cord will reach a good belay in an ice cave from the start of the hard pitch. I'd call this pitch M11 until someone else actually climbs it and up or downrates it; at first I thought it might be M12 and it might be, but the moves aren't vicious enough to warrant M12 somehow. It's full-on endurance on a steep wall, sort of like a Planet X rock route vs. a Heart Creek hard rock route, different styles. As an old man I've got decent endurance and have trained lock-offs a lot this year, so it suited me pretty well. I'm pretty sure anyone who could climb M9 could do every move on the route, it's just hard doing them in a row...

                          I never climbed the "P9" listed in the route description, and I don't think anybody has. You could certainly climb some more ice up there and that would be cool, I just wanted to make it clear what we did, that's important to me (I didn't write the route description).

                          Brandon and Will had some serious psyche for this route for something like three years. They spent a lot of time camping out, jugging, cleaning, having epics with the psycho wind and generally chasing the climbing dream. I think anyone who does the walk in there (two to four plus hours depending on snow) and gets on the route will realize what went into the JSR, and might then understand Brandon and Will's psyche at getting it done a bit better. Yeah, the spray has been a bit confused at times, but the whole experience was kinda confused too... I'm not going to remember any of the spray even next year, but I sure am going to remember the climbing, laughs, and how that tool levitated off the ground while tied to a rope and ended up at head-level 70M off the deck. That sort of thing is what climbing is all about for me, the rest is hype. Don't believe the hype, your own or others, but climbing is, to use the language of yesteryear, f@cking MEGA!


                          • #28
                            Sheesh, I wrote a novel and David posted up while that was going on. I didn't think I really had the right to post the route description etc. as I didn't do the majority of work on the route, that's why stayed out of it until Brandon and Will had a go at it.

                            Back to work now (yeah, I gotta work),



                            • #29
                              Nah - what fun would that be if we just let Gadd decide?

                              How about a license plate that says "What Would Gadd Do"? I am still waiting for him to thank the correct "thing"!

                              He forgets his gloves, how's he going to remember who, what, when and where - it's a BB and "WE" should decide, 'cause were not going to go climb it - so we should just hack all over it - no?

                              Yes we are shallow ... we are climbers

                              I am pretty sure that some actually think it's a rad route - others will think it's just another mixed forced media rig.

                              Personally i'm on the rad side of it - but at times the "ascent" takes over the style side and many just let it go.

                              Grivel via mark twight, built the solid marketing campaign "Style Matters".

                              Yes Gadd has a right to make a living and he does the best job out of any other Canadian climber i have seen. He can still lay the beats down on most any other climber around on his turf. He trains and actually cares.

                              Brian - your "shut up and climb" is taken as a tongue in cheek thing.

                              Why go climbing when you can have this much fun?


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jdl

                                How many ascents has Everest really had - you know without oxygen and in a small "alpine-style" format?
                                Now... this is waaayyy off topic, but that's how i roll sometimes... i sincerely hope you're not dissing hillary and norgay's first ascent of everest? it involved a huge team, fixed ropes and oxygen (when they tested the viability of their systems, oxygen was used to ascend almost the entire mountain... in segments, i guess).